newredshoes: radio tower on top of the world (hollow crown | indeed!)
[personal profile] newredshoes posting in [community profile] thegreatglobe
I bet you thought you'd seen the last of me. I have a question for you, fellow Shakespeare nerds. I'm writing this AU set during Henry IV Part II, and part of the AU (bear with me, it's not what you think) is that the Prince of Wales has married before he becomes king.

Any idea how King Henry (or anyone else, for that matter) would address his daughter-in-law, particularly in a casual way? I've heard/wondered about Lady Wales, Lady Monmouth and Lady Bolingbroke, but last names and titles have always been kind of confusing for me in the histories, so any help or insight (or link-sharing, if you think you know someone who might have an answer) would be most appreciated.

Date: 2014-04-13 08:55 pm (UTC)
rydra_wong: Close-up of 15-century clothes; a jewelled chain and a black velvet sleeve slashed to show gold fabric inside. (ricardus rex)
From: [personal profile] rydra_wong
Okay, so her title would be Princess of Wales -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_of_Wales indicates that the title was in use from well before this period

Monmouth's a place name, not a surname (IIRC, he's just "Harry of Monmouth" because it's where he was born).

Assuming we're in Shakespeareworld (and thus going by Elizabethan formality, not medieval), these look relevant:

http://walternelson.com/dr/node/253
http://elizabethan.org/compendium/13.html

She'd properly be addressed as "my lady" by most people -- I think (if I'm reading the links correctly) she doesn't get "your highness" as she's not the Queen or in the direct royal line herself. My sense is that "madam" would be slightly more informal, closer to equal-to-equal.

Of course, the King is the King, so he doesn't have to worry too much.

Working out whether she's "Lady Wales" etc. is only really an issue if he's referring to her in the third person.

Date: 2014-04-19 02:08 pm (UTC)
rydra_wong: Close-up of 15-century clothes; a jewelled chain and a black velvet sleeve slashed to show gold fabric inside. (ricardus rex)
From: [personal profile] rydra_wong
by what peerage her husband would be addressed,

Prince of Wales. That's his most important title (and, IIRC, the one Hal's addressed by when he's being addressed formally).

One person suggested she might be styled Lady Lancaster, if Henry IV's oldest son is also the Duke of Lancaster.

Hrm. That doesn't make sense to me, since it would mean addressing her by one of her minor titles.

Also, some Googling suggests that Henry IV was still Duke of Lancaster -- it didn't descend to his son until his death.

how that would apply to her in the second person ("Hey, Lady X, how's things?", basically)

Still "My lady", I think -- perhaps "My lady of Wales" if it's needed to differentiate her from other ladies present?

Date: 2014-04-15 05:16 pm (UTC)
snakeling: Statue of the Minoan Snake Goddess (Default)
From: [personal profile] snakeling
In a casual way? "Daughter", I would think.

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